I’m convert to Islam after I did some serious researches and finally I have to admit that the truth is only in Islam.

I hope you will consider my all points sincerely, what to say, our discussion should be end here. Again to be sincere, no Christian all these while can ever responds to these kind of questions confidently, no, I not yet found. This is not because of my questions are really good no! This is not the matter here, but the most important thing is we should really consider our faith seriously whether it is on the right path or not. Because we will responsible for it in here after.

I am apologize if I heart anybody feeling here. so lastly I wish to you and all Chinese Gong Xi Fa Chai. Bye.

Talking about who has or has not the right to ban, I must admit I don’t know much about politics and the Constitution. But I really do not wish to go into it because religion is already sensitive enough an issue! Also I don’t want to say the wrong thing and add ‘fuel to the fire’.Anyway, maybe someone else can enlighten us on this issue.

As Chinese New Year is around, I would be very busy. So will talk to you again later?

Thanks for your honesty and openness. I am beginning to understand more about your feelings and perspectives.

God bless you.
May His grace and peace be upon all those who seek His Truth.
Allana.

I hope this positive dialog will benefit both of us as well as the readers here. In order to make this dialog to be really significant, we have to have an open minded mind. I thanks you for replying to my post.

You has wrote:

“Put in your words, ‘the attributes of Jesus for a Muslim is different from the attributes of Jesus for the Christian” . I know Muslims respect Jesus, but yet you will not agree with the most important things Christians believe about Him.

But we don’t stop others from using the word, ‘Jesus’. If you were to look through your post above, you have used the word ‘Jesus’ at least 13 times. Thank you that you respect Him, but still your attributes of Jesus is not the same as Christian belief.”

Alana to be direct, what is the right of Christians to ban the ‘Jesus of Muslim’ whereas Islam is arrived in Tanah Melayu first then only came Christianity. In the eyes of the Muslims at that time were – Christianity was bringing the different Christ to Tanah Melayu. That was one of the reason why Malay at that time rejected the Christianity because they already knew who Jesus (p.b.u.h) really was. But remember even so, we are not ban you for that, but when you go further by claiming ‘Allah’ as God, so at this time please give us a break.

In this very Islamic country, to be honors, it is heartful when we read, “Jesus is God” at your car back’s sticker or elsewhere, but that is your belief and we have to tolerate on that, we also have right to put “Jesus is not God” at our car, but no we are not doing so, we don’t want to heart our Christians fellow brothers and actually that is not the right way to propagate our religion. It is so heartful until we can’t dare to see any next sticker says, “Jesus is Allah”, I hope you Christians can understand our stand on this issue. I am so sorry if I heart anybody feeling when say all these.

Before further discussing of my point of view whether ‘Jesus is God’ or not, please read the similarities that we are sharing together:

1. Muslims believe, that Jesus (p.b.u.h) was one of the mightiest messengers of God or a prophet, this parallel with Matthew 21:11 – Jesus a prophet from Galilee.

2. He was the Christ or Messiah, same as what teaches by the Bible.

3. He gave life to the dead by God’s permission, this point too is parallel with the teaching of the Bible.

4. He healed those born blind and the lepers by god’s permission, plainly similar as what teaches by the Bible.

So we to share the same attributes of Jesus.

For me Jesus (p.b.u.h) can’t be God at any time. What I will transmit here is not to heart your feeling but to show you what I believe as the truth, and once again we should open our mind and don’t be biased. Let us call a spade as a spade. If I’m wrong then I will admit it, so do in your side (I hope). These are the reasons why Jesus (p.b.u.h) can’t be God at any time from my points of view (in points form):

1. If Jesus is God, how could he die for your sins?

Please read 1 Timothy 1:17, (focus a the word in bold)

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

God cannot die, yet Jesus was killed and then resurrected (Acts 5:30). The Bible does not say that only his “human nature” died; it says that Jesus died, which would include all of Jesus (100%), read:

1 Corinthians 15:3

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.

2. How can Jesus be “God” and have a “God” at the same time?

The God of the Bible is the Almighty, the Creator, the Most High, and no one compares to Him. Jesus Christ cannot be “God” if he says that your heavenly Father is his “God.”

You cannot be the “Most High God” and be in submission to the “Most High God” (1 Cor.15:28) and say that He is your God. This makes no sense at all.

If words truly have meaning, then one cannot be “God” and have a “God” at the same time.

Check out the verses below that clearly show that the Father is the “God” of your Lord Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 1:17

I keep asking that the God of your Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.

Romans 15:6

…so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:3

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort…

Ephesians 1:3

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

1 Peter 1:3

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!

The above verses are very clear. Jesus Christ has a God. Who is the God of your Lord Jesus Christ? Ephesians 1:17 very clearly says that this God is your glorious Father.

Jesus Christ himself called the Father his “God” and Father many different times in Scripture.

John 20:17 (KJV)

…I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”

Revelation 3:12

Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

Revelation 3:21

To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

3. If God cannot be tempted by evil, yet Jesus was tempted in every way we are, how can he be God?

James 1:13

For God cannot be tempted by evil.

but then read Hebrews 4:15

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin.

Dear Alana, the Bible never says that Jesus’ “human nature” was tempted, it says “Jesus” was tempted. Nowhere does it say that “part” of Jesus was tempted; it was “all” of him. If Jesus is God, this is a clear contradiction. Fortunately, Jesus is the human Son of God, so there is no contradiction.

Thus in Islam Qur’an is corrected the misunderstanding about Jesus (p.b.u.h) by Christianity says:

And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother* as gods in derogation of Allah.?” He will say: “Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

“Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, ‘worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord’; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things. (Qur’an 5:116-117)

*In New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia on Mary says that there was a group of Christian which was worshiping Mary as mother of God which called ‘Theotokos’ in Greek.

So these are my 3 points which are for me denying Jesus (p.b.u.h) as God. Let us look at the point one by one and consider it. Again let us call a spade as a spade. For the Bible says, “The truth shall let you free”. If you are not agree with my point let us see why?

But we don’t stop others from using the word, ‘Jesus’. If you were to look through your post above, you have used the word ‘Jesus’ at least 13 times. Thank you that you respect Him, but still your attributes of Jesus is not the same as Christian belief.

And please don’t misunderstand me when I say that people write and sing and curse using Jesus name,I don’t mean the Muslims at all! I am sorry that I did not make myself clear on that. I meant the people on TV and movies etc. So, my question is, can Christians ban people who don’t believe the same things about Jesus from using His name?

The name of Jesus is very important to Christians too. Phil2:9-10 say,’Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him a name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father’.

Now this is definitely not the Jesus that non Christians believe in. So, can Christians ban them from using the word ‘Jesus’?

My friend, please do not tell me the New Testament has been corrupted, because then I will have nothing more to say, except that we just need to respect the beliefs of others from our hearts.

May He be gracious to us.
May His peace be upon us.
Allana.

Mr. Jenn Ji wrote:
Is God really a lion? Obviously not. But metaphorically, that’s probably a good description of what the context of the scripture was.

In the house of Islam, Allah is describing in very highly respected ways. Because Qur’an teaches us that:

“To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names” (Qur’an 59:23)

and in another place Qur’an says:

“And there is none comparable unto Him” (Qur’an 112:4)

Of course ‘a lion’ is not a beautiful name or attribute for Allah (infact not even for man! If so, how dare we are using it to describe Allah?). In Islamic point of view, you can’t put the attribute of the creatures to Allah in what ever reason that you have such as, “He couched, he lay down as a lion.” (Numbers 24:9) – no! Qur’an says, “Naught is as His likeness” (Qur’an 42:11). Allah is neither as a lion, nor as a man (who drunk?), save Him none as His likeness. If you are still comparing Allah with any of His creature, so you are disgrace Allah whereas Allah is free from all corruptions.

Christians should know that not only Islam is prohibited to make the resemblance/likeness between any creature with God, but the OT also prohibited this, please read:

“Thou shalt not make……any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth” KJV (Exodus 20:4)

Actually for me, both teaching are similar in honouring Allah but then we should learn to make the teaching of the both scriptures to be alive accordingly.

And this is Allah:

Allah! There is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave? He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous. (Qur’an 2:255)

And this is a part of Allah’s Beautiful Names:

Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god; Who knows (all things) both secret and open; He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
Allah is He, than Whom there is no other god; the Sovereign, the Holy One, the Source of Peace (and Perfection), the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Safety, the Exalted in Might, the Irresistible, the Supreme: Glory to Allah! (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him.

He is Allah, the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colours). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, doth declare His Praises and Glory; and He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (Qur’an 59:22-24)

And Allana wrote:

You know something? When non-Christian people write, speak, sing or curse using the word ‘Jesus’, the attributes of ‘Jesus’ in Christianity are also different with the attributes used by them(non-Christians). So would it be right for Christians to ban the word from being used by everyone else?

I’ll try to share with you who was Jesus (p.b.u.h.) in Islam.

Muslims believe, that Jesus was one of the mightiest messengers of God that he was the Christ, that he was born miraculously without any male intervention (which many modern-day Christians do not believe today, pls. read this http://www.jamaat.net/muh-christ/Image20.jpg ), that he gave life to the dead by God’s permission and that he healed those born blind and the lepers by god’s permission. In fact, no Muslim is a Muslim if he or she does not believe in Jesus! We too believe that Jesus will return again as a Messiah.

The Christian does not know that the true spirit of charity which the Muslim displays, always, towards Jesus and his mother Mary spring from the fountainhead of his faith – the Holy Quran. He does not know that the Muslim does not take the holy name of Jesus, in his own language, without saying Eesa, alaihi assalam (“Jesus, peace be upon him” – p.b.u.h)

The Christian does not know that in the Holy Quran Jesus is mentioned twenty five times (whereas prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h) only mentioned five time in the holy Qur’an) for example:

“We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear signs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit” (The Holy Quran 2:87)

“O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary…” (3:45)

“…Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of god…” (4:171)

“…And in their foot steps we sent Jesus the son of Mary…” (5:46)
“And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the righteous.” (6:85)

I hope you can understand our faith batter.

I have nothing at all against Muslims or people of any other faith because God made us all. Christians believe we are all made in God’s image and therefore each person is precious.

Please don’t take things personally while we are discussing here-rather let’s think of it as thinking through a delicate matter together. BTW, I don’t consider that we have been Bible or Quran bashing (more like ‘people bashing’ at times, though! LOL!)!

Coming back to your argument .You said,”Other than that, another confuse issue is that the attributes of ‘Allah’ in Islam are different with the attributes of ‘Allah’ in Christianity.”

You know something? When non-Christian people write, speak, sing or curse using the word ‘Jesus’, the attributes of ‘Jesus’ in Christianity are also different with the attributes used by them(non-Christians). So would it be right for Christians to ban the word from being used by everyone else?

You have a valid reason to describe the difference between the God of Islam and the God of the Christians. However, again, your latest rebuttal does not fully reflect a comprehensive understanding of biblical scriptures. Surely you have a point in saying that Christians have yet to decide whether their God is Allah or Tuhan but that is because according to scripture and believe that the God of the Christians attributes to many names to describe His nature. Although this may disagree with you but it is something that Christians hold firm to and therefore would explain why they may seem undecided using the right name for God. Which brings me to a 2nd point.

Anthropology. The Bible writers have used human terms which is to help their readers understand and describe God and His nature in the best and most understandable way possible. Can you fully and truly describe an indescribable feeling or emotion that you feel sometimes? Not really because sometimes there are no words that can express it. But we tend to use the closest word possible to describe how we feel. In the same context, sometimes the Bible describes God in a way that the reader will be able to understand and feel. Is God really a lion? Obviously not. But metaphorically, that’s probably a good description of what the context of the scripture was. Again, it’s a language thing.

I felt you started off well with your rebuttal to the credibility of Arthur Jefferey and respected you for that but the latest one was not called for. Yes the rest who commented and disagreed with you were probably not very polite either but I thought it could have been handled better.

Anyhow the point of this post was not to show off whose God had a bigger stature and status now wasn’t it? If the matter was regarding the borrowing of Allah in terms of a linguistic issue, then shouldn’t we agree to disagree on the matter? Because this issue is not as easy as everyone would want it to be. I hope that all this Bible and Q’uran bashing / Allah and God comparisons be handled in a better way in this thread.

So They are not the same god. Moreover if we translate ‘god’ to Malay, it is ‘tuhan’, not ‘Allah’.